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NY Times forced to correct another leftwing myth

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An article on Feb. 9 about the military's recruitment of Hispanics referred incompletely to the belief of some critics that Hispanics in the Iraq war and blacks in the Vietnam War accounted for a disproportionate number of casualties. Statistics do not support the belief.

Hispanics, who are about 14 percent of the population, accounted for about 11 percent of the military deaths in Iraq through Dec. 3, 2005.

About 12.5 percent of the military dead in Vietnam were African-Americans, who made up about 13. 5 percent of the general population during the war years.

The error was pointed out in an e-mail in February; the correction was delayed for research after a lapse at The Times.

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{"commentId":89597,"authorDomain":"ksoze"}

African Americans often did supply a disproportionate number of combat troops, a high percentage of whom had voluntarily enlisted. Although they made up less than 10 percent of American men in arms and about 13 percent of the U.S. population between 1961 and 1966, they accounted for almost 20 percent of all combat-related deaths in Vietnam during that period. In 1965 alone African Americans represented almost one-fourth of the Army's killed in action. In 1968 African Americans, who made up roughly 12 percent of Army and Marine total strengths, frequently contributed half the men in front-line combat units, especially in rifle squads and fire teams.

Source: http://www.english.uiuc.edu/Maps/poets/s_z/stevens/africanamer.htm

{"commentId":89597,"threadId":"358","contentId":"160543","authorDomain":"ksoze"}
  • 7 votes
Reply#1 - Sat Apr 8, 2006 10:06 AM EDT
{"commentId":89655,"authorDomain":"thedaily"}

@KSoze

Your own cited facts defeat you.

For example, if black soldiers were indeed half of the front line forces, how on earth could their casualty rates be so low (12.5%)???

{"commentId":89655,"threadId":"358","contentId":"160543","authorDomain":"thedaily"}
  • 6 votes
Reply#2 - Sat Apr 8, 2006 11:20 AM EDT
{"commentId":89758,"authorDomain":"schry911"}

if black soldiers were indeed half of the front line forces

Neither KSoze nor the cited source refer to anything close to a 50% figure. Can you explain your comment??

{"commentId":89758,"threadId":"358","contentId":"160543","authorDomain":"schry911"}
  • 2 votes
#2.1 - Sat Apr 8, 2006 1:50 PM EDT
{"commentId":89881,"authorDomain":"dougunderscorenelson"}

Golden, it's in the article.
However, I'm not defending Mad's baffling comment that the casualty rates shouldn't be 12.5% in this case. For one, if he'd read the article, he'd know that 12.6% was the stabilization rate after American commanders were pressured to reduce the rate from 14.9%.

Considering that 58,000 US soldiers died over a long period, and US forces were nearly a half-million strong at points, the disproportionate rate of 14.9% is quite bad.

{"commentId":89881,"threadId":"358","contentId":"160543","authorDomain":"dougunderscorenelson"}
  • 1 vote
#2.2 - Sat Apr 8, 2006 4:07 PM EDT
Reply
{"commentId":89673,"authorDomain":"bardamu"}

I appreciate the fact that you pointed out this correction. However, what makes it a left wing myth? It is a left wing myth because it involves minorities? If the statistics were right, would you be appalled? Once again, on newsvine, I am extremely confused how the subject relates to the seeded link.

{"commentId":89673,"threadId":"358","contentId":"160543","authorDomain":"bardamu"}
  • 9 votes
Reply#3 - Sat Apr 8, 2006 11:57 AM EDT
{"commentId":89687,"authorDomain":"cornishgame"}

Did you actually read the article before writing your headline? From the original article:

"Critics also say that Latinos often wind up as cannon fodder on the casualty-prone front lines. African-Americans saw the same thing happen during the 1970's and 1980's, an accusation that still reverberates. "

All that I see here is an effort to ensure factual reporting.

{"commentId":89687,"threadId":"358","contentId":"160543","authorDomain":"cornishgame"}
  • 2 votes
Reply#4 - Sat Apr 8, 2006 12:12 PM EDT
{"commentId":89713,"authorDomain":"thedaily"}

@Cornish game

As the statistics show, that accusation, whether it reverberates or not, is factually incorrect. I applaud the NY Times correction. And the fact that the NY Times spent several weeks researching the statistics before publishing the correction, gives me greater confidence than normal.

Regarding the left wing myth, I called it that because it is most often pushed by race-baiting politicians out of the Jesse Jackson mold.

{"commentId":89713,"threadId":"358","contentId":"160543","authorDomain":"thedaily"}
  • 3 votes
Reply#5 - Sat Apr 8, 2006 12:59 PM EDT
{"commentId":89834,"authorDomain":"eric3point0"}

I dunno. "Leftwing Myth" still seems like an unnecessarily partisan generalization. I note, too, your bias against the NYT. "Forced" implies that the NYT would never have printed "truth" without outside pressure.

This fetishism of the Times is pretty common among rightwingers: "You can't trust them! The Media hates Republicans. The NYT is the most influential newspaper. Therefore, the Times hates Republicans the most."

How Bush and Cheney must've guffawed over leaking all that classified info to Judy Miller....

{"commentId":89834,"threadId":"358","contentId":"160543","authorDomain":"eric3point0"}
  • 13 votes
Reply#6 - Sat Apr 8, 2006 3:13 PM EDT
{"commentId":89843,"authorDomain":"powercow"}

misleading statistics.. the left is still right. and so is the right in a way
true african americans accounted for 12.5% of the deaths
true african americans were 13% of the population
But due to racial bias at the time they were only 10%
of the armed forces serving in vietnam..
so while african americans as a race were not disproportionately killed more
african americans in the military were. More likely to serve dangerous missions or be at the front line.

{"commentId":89843,"threadId":"358","contentId":"160543","authorDomain":"powercow"}
  • 2 votes
Reply#7 - Sat Apr 8, 2006 3:23 PM EDT
{"commentId":89844,"authorDomain":"powercow"}

{"commentId":89844,"threadId":"358","contentId":"160543","authorDomain":"powercow"}
    Reply#8 - Sat Apr 8, 2006 3:25 PM EDT
    {"commentId":89846,"authorDomain":"powercow"}

    {"commentId":89846,"threadId":"358","contentId":"160543","authorDomain":"powercow"}
      Reply#9 - Sat Apr 8, 2006 3:25 PM EDT
      {"commentId":89886,"authorDomain":"dougunderscorenelson"}

      Wow, our most important myth - SHATTERED!
      Now, get to work on debunking the illegality of wiretapping, the failure of this war, the poverty rate, the tripling of world-wide terrorism....you know, our smaller myth. It shouldn't be that hard to do!

      {"commentId":89886,"threadId":"358","contentId":"160543","authorDomain":"dougunderscorenelson"}
      • 5 votes
      Reply#10 - Sat Apr 8, 2006 4:09 PM EDT
      {"commentId":89905,"authorDomain":"regbarc"}

      That's one heck of a strawman, and mischaracterization of the original post.

      He labeled it as "another" left-wing myth, not the most important one.

      {"commentId":89905,"threadId":"358","contentId":"160543","authorDomain":"regbarc"}
      • 5 votes
      #10.1 - Sat Apr 8, 2006 4:42 PM EDT
      {"commentId":89921,"authorDomain":"dougunderscorenelson"}

      Sorry, I'll use "sarcasm" tags next time.

      Merely characterizing this as a "leftwing" myth was absurd, and completely warped the original article. This is just another fine example of cherry-picking the news, but in this case, it's scooping up something almost no one had heard of or asserted and attempting to spin it into a victory for the right.

      If you can call "strawman" on my attempted humor, I can most certainly call it on "leftwing myth."

      {"commentId":89921,"threadId":"358","contentId":"160543","authorDomain":"dougunderscorenelson"}
      • 6 votes
      #10.2 - Sat Apr 8, 2006 5:10 PM EDT
      {"commentId":89953,"authorDomain":"regbarc"}

      There's a big difference between sarcasm and exaggeration. Additionally, his labeling of the news as "leftwing myth" isn't the same (and can't be labeled as a strawman) as then turning around and claiming it was the most important myth.

      {"commentId":89953,"threadId":"358","contentId":"160543","authorDomain":"regbarc"}
      • 3 votes
      #10.3 - Sat Apr 8, 2006 5:54 PM EDT
      {"commentId":90325,"authorDomain":"abhibeckert"}

      Mate, it was clearly sarcasm.

      {"commentId":90325,"threadId":"358","contentId":"160543","authorDomain":"abhibeckert"}
        #10.4 - Sun Apr 9, 2006 5:18 AM EDT
        {"commentId":90329,"authorDomain":"regbarc"}

        The comment in its entirity? Absolutely it was clear. The "most important" part? Yeah, not so much.

        {"commentId":90329,"threadId":"358","contentId":"160543","authorDomain":"regbarc"}
          #10.5 - Sun Apr 9, 2006 5:40 AM EDT
          Reply
          {"commentId":90003,"authorDomain":"royeyk"}

          The headline is nonsense but to correct it I'd say Poor People get killed more than the Rich in modern wars. Ever since Napoleon started the citizen army the rich weasel out and the poor fight. We should adopt that sci-fi idea that citizenship and national service are linked.

          {"commentId":90003,"threadId":"358","contentId":"160543","authorDomain":"royeyk"}
          • 1 vote
          Reply#11 - Sat Apr 8, 2006 7:39 PM EDT
          {"commentId":90367,"authorDomain":"ubernostrum"}

          You know, I think this seed could use some rewriting to make it more prone to causing political flamewars. Maybe "The New York Times, a well-known America-hating smear rag which desires the victory of the terrorists and wants President Bush and our troops to die horribly and be forced to watch ultra-explicit cuts of Brokeback Mountain for all eternity in Hell, forced to retract vicious, blatant lies which had been published by gay communist liberal secular-humanistic atheists with the sole intent of promoting an anti-American, anti-military, pro-terrorist homosexual agenda of Darwinian evolution."

          It flows a bit better like that, don't you think?

          Or maybe I'll choose to have my Sunday-morning coffee with cream and sugar, but no bile.

          {"commentId":90367,"threadId":"358","contentId":"160543","authorDomain":"ubernostrum"}
          • 2 votes
          Reply#12 - Sun Apr 9, 2006 7:26 AM EDT
          {"commentId":90368,"authorDomain":"ubernostrum"}

          Whoops. Forgot to mention that they're gay communist liberal secular-humanistic atheist abortion providers. That'll wow 'em!

          {"commentId":90368,"threadId":"358","contentId":"160543","authorDomain":"ubernostrum"}
          • 1 vote
          #12.1 - Sun Apr 9, 2006 7:28 AM EDT
          Reply
          {"commentId":90590,"authorDomain":"eric3point0"}

          Bravo, James. May I suggest adding "global-warming wackos"?

          {"commentId":90590,"threadId":"358","contentId":"160543","authorDomain":"eric3point0"}
            Reply#13 - Sun Apr 9, 2006 1:51 PM EDT
            {"canLink":false,"threadId":"358","isPrivate":false}
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